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Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 27 May 2019, 03:47
by Ghostm
I was just wondering if its possible (and if not could it be implemented) for mrmc on the shield to detect forced pgs subs (often used in blu-rays such as avatar or game of thrones blu-rays). In these instances discs are often authored with full english subtitle stream for instance, but non english parts in the stream are marked as forced. Kodi for windows, plex media player for windows, mpc-hc, and maybe zidoo recently added this, some other media players like popcorn hour i think could also do this.

I know in the zappiti/dune media player worlds this is a huge request, is this currently possible or can it be added for mrmc on the shield?

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 27 May 2019, 18:16
by timstephens24
Yes, it's definitely possibly and already there. Go to Settings -> Video -> Subtitles and then set "Preferred subtitle language" to Forced only.

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 29 May 2019, 03:23
by Ghostm
I believe this only enables subtitles named appropriately as forced in a separate file?

I am using plex so maybe that changes things?

What I am asking for is detection of the forced flag inside a blu-ray subtitle stream. This reduces the need for separate subtitle files. Since blu-rays already include pgs subtitles, the player just has to be able to detect the forced sections.

In mrmc when i enable that setting, it just enables a totally separate subtitle file that is appropriately named to load it as forced. It does not detect forced subtitles included in a retail blu-rays subtitle stream.

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 30 May 2019, 09:36
by timstephens24
The setting detects the forced flag and displays that subtitle. If you have an external subtitle with forced in the proper naming scheme that's treated like the forced flag in a mkv/mp4 as well.

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 01 Jun 2019, 02:13
by Ghostm
Ok, so are you saying that if i rip a blu-ray to mkv, this setting will be able to detect the forced flag inside a pgs subtitle stream?

So avatar blu-ray since it is well known has an english stream with all subs, the alien parts and english parts, however official blu-ray players and some media players can detect just the forced or foreign subtitles out of the stream for the alien speaking parts and display them, without displaying all the subtitles.

I use plex with mrmc but when I tested this, it did not seem to work. If I import my library over smb perhaps it will if we are understanding each other?

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 01 Jun 2019, 10:02
by timstephens24
I use Plex and it still works like that for all my movies. I make sure all the movies that have non-English PSG subs have the forced flag set. It also works for anime that I rip and set the ASS subs to forced and they're played correctly in MrMC (but not in Kodi).

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 01 Jun 2019, 18:00
by amet
timstephens24 wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 10:02
... It also works for anime that I rip and set the ASS subs to forced and they're played correctly in MrMC (but not in Kodi).
Didn’t we work on that and made it as you wanted it in MrMC?

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 01 Jun 2019, 18:59
by timstephens24
amet wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 18:00
timstephens24 wrote:
01 Jun 2019, 10:02
... It also works for anime that I rip and set the ASS subs to forced and they're played correctly in MrMC (but not in Kodi).
Didn’t we work on that and made it as you wanted it in MrMC?
Yup, still working great! :D

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 03 Jun 2019, 03:36
by Ghostm
Ok getting a bit more clarity on your use case.

It sounds like based on some of the details you provided, you mux out the non english pgs subs it sounds like? And then create a separate subtitle file and set the flag to forced I am guessing using mkvtoolnix? Either way it sounds like you have a separate subtitle file with ONLY forced parts.

That is a bit different then what I am asking for, since I used makemkv for many years, and would rather not go back and remux hundreds of films, the method I am asking for behaves like a retail blu-ray player and some players such as MPC-HC for instance or kodi for windows can literally detect only the forced parts of a pgs subtitle stream instead of playing all the english subtitles in the stream, it can detect automatically only the forced sections and display them.

Unless you are saying the same thing as me, in which case I will have some troubleshooting to do, although I cant imagine why it wouldnt work.

Re: Forced pgs subs inside an mkv

Posted: 04 Jun 2019, 23:42
by timstephens24
There's no way in the Matroska spec (that I know of) to have a subtitle track with just certain parts of that track marked as forced. The spec is just for the whole track to be marked as forced. There's also very few discs that work the way you're describing and most movies have a full subtitle track with just the forced subtitles. See this thread here for some more information: https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7097

Can you post the mediainfo for a file you have that works like you're describing in other apps but not MrMC? I'd be interested to see what they look like.

I had to rerip a lot of my movies with MakeMKV about 3 years ago after going through the same issue you're going through now but it was across all the media players I was using I could never get them to display the subtitles I wanted. Now I'm very meticulous now when I rip with how they're flagged to make sure I don't have any problems and the forced track is the only one I keep (marked forced+default). I also use subtitles sites (generally subscene.com) to verify forced tracks or not for every movie when I rip it so I know if MakeMKV pulled what it was supposed to or not.