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24p playback

Any issues that are FireTV specific
k2_1971
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Joined: 09 May 2016, 23:16

24p playback

Post by k2_1971 » 09 May 2016, 23:36

Hi all. Thank you devteam for giving us MrMC. I appreciate the work that went into it. I like not having to mess with sideloading apps, wondering if Amazon will support Kodi today, not support it tomorrow, etc. Worth the $$$ spent on this app.

Question - are there plans to enable 24p playback of content that's encoded as such? I understand that this is already possible on the Nvidia Shield. I have a FireTV 2 with quite a bit of 1080p24 and 720i30 content, it'd be great to see this content played back in its original refresh rate. I'm sure you all are aware of the tearing that occurs when playing 24p content on a system locked to 60p.

Thanks again!

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davilla
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Re: 24p playback

Post by davilla » 10 May 2016, 04:10

Begin looked into, but all my content is 23.976 and it seems pretty smooth.

720i30 is deinterlaced to 60, so no difference there.

k2_1971
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Joined: 09 May 2016, 23:16

Re: 24p playback

Post by k2_1971 » 10 May 2016, 04:30

Thanks for the reply davilla. I agree, most content at 24p or 23.976 displays smoothly - on some scenes where there's a lot of activity, fast movement, I notice a certain amount of judder or tearing. My old WDTV Live would switch refresh rates automatically, was a bit disappointed that the FireTV/2 did not. Hope you and the team are able to work in a solution.

koying
Posts: 55
Joined: 20 Mar 2016, 17:49

Re: 24p playback

Post by koying » 10 May 2016, 06:09

That would require Amazon to allow it, though.
There's an android API both to retrieve supported refresh rates and to specify the desired one.

The first one does not work for sure, and I doubt the second would, but I actually never tried to "force" it.

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davilla
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Re: 24p playback

Post by davilla » 10 May 2016, 12:26

I have to also say, that I'm using the v2.2 version which is not released (yet). I've made some changes in rendering and mediacodec that seem to put playback closer to atv4 behavior. ATV4 is really smooth and we have the best playback of anything (including Infuse) under the ATV4.

Still looking close at playback, I think we can do even better than what I see now.

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davilla
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Re: 24p playback

Post by davilla » 10 May 2016, 12:42

k2_1971 wrote:Thanks for the reply davilla. I agree, most content at 24p or 23.976 displays smoothly - on some scenes where there's a lot of activity, fast movement, I notice a certain amount of judder or tearing. My old WDTV Live would switch refresh rates automatically, was a bit disappointed that the FireTV/2 did not. Hope you and the team are able to work in a solution.
A tearing is a video frame that contains part of one, part of another. This can ONLY happen with interlaced content as rendered frame flips are always done with complete frames.

A jutter (stutter) is a sequence of frames where one or more frames are dropped to keep rendering in sync. A few possible reasons;

1) Decoder can't keep up. (more reasons for this besides CPU ponies)
2) Rendering can't keep up.
3) The frame rate of rendering does not exactly match the frame rate of video.

#3 is why the urge to change to 24/23.976 display rate. You pray that the frame rates exactly match. I say pray because they never match exactly :) This behavior also have very defined symptoms. The skipped frame can be predicted exactly in time and the skip repeats on a known time boundary.

I suspect 2) and the thing that one has to remember when running under a multi-tasking OS is that there are many, many other things going on and any one of these can steal CPU away and cause the renderer to miss its mark and drop a frame or be late.

k2_1971
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Joined: 09 May 2016, 23:16

Re: 24p playback

Post by k2_1971 » 10 May 2016, 17:37

Alright, good to know. I had my terminology mixed up there. I'm not seeing 'tearing' like you would if you have vsync off on a PC and you're playing a fast-paced FPS game where the CPU/GPU can't keep up. It's definitely 'judder'. Hope it's not reason #2, the processor in the aftv2 is quite a bit faster than the original.

Thanks again for the responses, learned something new ;) keep up the great work.

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davilla
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Re: 24p playback

Post by davilla » 10 May 2016, 18:10

In my tests, on firetv set-top (not stick), during playback the CPU will idle down the clock and even turn off one or two of the four CPUs.

Tonyj64
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Joined: 26 Apr 2016, 09:42

Re: 24p playback

Post by Tonyj64 » 13 May 2016, 08:44

I'm using mrmc on both fire tv and ATV4 and for me playback on apple tv is superior in terms of judder, im not sure if its the 23.976 kind of judder but the fire tv2 just isn't smooth, not just mrmc but kodi also. I'm quite sensitive to seeing this usually but ATV4 is doing something to remove any stutter/judder. Mind you i love the look of infuse on ATV but playback is a jerky mess in my opinion, maybe harsh but true considering its more expensive. I've a feeling that the stutter on fire tv2 isn't due to 24p but something else as 1st gen fire tv didnt seem to have this problem.

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davilla
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Re: 24p playback

Post by davilla » 13 May 2016, 12:08

4) Another thing that can hit the AFTV hard is the calculation of the internal audio delay in the audio sink. This audio delay is amount of data (PCM or otherwise) in time from when it is handed off the native audio device to when you hear it.

On ATV4, that delay is very well determined, thanks to Apple. But on Amazon FireTV, thanks to Android, wanders at times. This could feed back to renderer making it think it is behind and then the renderer drops frames to adjust a/v sync. Totally bogus as a/v is in sync. The trick becomes to minimize the effect. There is code there that tries to 'smooth' out the fluctuations but I'm beginning to suspect it as the root cause.

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